What If…?
In order to bring everyone up to speed I have to first take several minutes and go into a little bit of my message of last May 31st (Flashbacks Into The Kingdom of Darkness) and then pick up where I left off. An amazing conversation had been taking place between a couple of my fictitious characters, a man named Charlie and his guardian angel who are living in “the other side” of eternity. In other words, Charlie and the angel are in the “everlasting present,” a dimension still in our future and which we will enter into when we die.
Charlie had just witnessed three supernatural flashbacks of pitiful scenes depicting members of his family crying out in heartbreaking prayers of anguish to God before he died and left this world. Each of these people told God they wished they had never had been born. And all because of the awful abuse they were each subjected to for most of their lives by this extremely self-centered, inpatient, argumentative, in-your-face-know-it-all loose-cannon. As is often the case with such people; the man was totally shocked by these revelations. However, those of you who have been following his exploits know the Lord has been using the angel, who by now is almost worn out from trying to convince Charlie that until he becomes holy he will not see God, but you folks also know that slowly but surely, the angel has been making progress with this very stubborn man.
For instance, after watching the last flashback the angel asked him: “Now what do you have to say for yourself, Charlie?” “Those flashbacks got me convinced!” “I never knew how stinking rotten I really was, Pal. I was good for nothing except to cause a whole bunch of misery for lots of people, especially the ones in my own family. If I was still in my body I think I would pull my tongue out. I can’t even stand myself anymore. They would have been better off without me, Pal. I wish I had never been born.” “Really!” “Yeah, Pal!” “I’m authorized to tell you that can be arranged, Charlie.” “You mean it will be like I never even existed. “Correct, Charlie!” “But then I wouldn’t get to enjoy being in heaven for ever; and what about my son? He turned out to be a real good kid. He wouldn’t exist either?” “To use your own words, “you got that right, Charlie.” “But Martha and [my brother] Claude would.” “That’s also correct. “I wasted my whole life being wrapped up in myself, Pal. It was always about me and very little about Him. I can’t go back and undo all the rotten stuff I’ve done.” “I’m aware of that fact, Charlie. People only pass through the world once. There are no second chances.” “But if I never got born in the first place there wouldn’t be anything to undo.” “Precisely, Charlie!”
“[Thanks to you and those flashbacks]….I know now it isn’t about me, Pal. It’s all about Him. That’s why I want whatever my Creator planned, ordained, and predestined to happen before He spoke His world into existence.” No sooner had he gotten those words out of his mouth that it seemed as though [out of the blue] a switch was flicked. Everything suddenly lit up. There was no more darkness. None whatsoever! Charlie immediately sensed he was in the presence of four other people. A woman’s voice greeted him. “Welcome home, Charlie.” “Martha? Is that you Martha?” “It sure is dad,” answered Charlie’s son. “We’re happy to see you again, Charlie.” “You’re here too, Claude?” “They’re all here Charlie,” a stranger interjected. “Who are you?” “I was your brother’s therapist.” “But not anymore! I couldn’t be doing any better than I am right now,” said Claude. “I don’t understand. How did you guys get here before me?” “It happened while we were driving in your car over the old bridge on our way home from your committal service at the cemetery,” Martha answered. “The bridge suddenly gave out and we plunged into the river sixty feet below,” added his son. “The next thing we knew is that here we are in heaven,” dad. “It was instantaneous.” “We’ve been waiting for you,” said Martha. “Let’s show dad around a bit,” said the boy.“We still have some time before Jesus told us to bring him into His presence,” added Claude, ….while the beaming angel took in all in.”
Meanwhile, at the exact same moment and unbeknownst to Charlie, a different scene was taking place back on earth involving these same folks together with the old Bible teacher, and Charlie’s sons best friend Rick; a young man who was suffering from paralysis from the waist down. Since it was the first study Claude’s former therapist attended, the teacher introduced himself and extended a warm welcome on behalf of the group. He went on to share a little about himself and explained why he had been a faithful attendee at the study. One by one the others followed his lead. When it was the newcomers turn everyone was eager to hear what he would have to say.
The man identified himself as Dr. Marvin Schwartz, a practicing psychiatrist for almost twenty years, a person who entered into his profession out of a passionate desire to help those unfortunate people who were suffering from a disorder of their mind. He said: “I accepted Claude’s gracious invitation to attend today in order to be able to observe first-hand what transpires at these studies and hopefully learn how such a highly dysfunctional family has apparently been transformed into becoming normal members of society. Whenever I reflect upon a chronically apprehensive and pessimistic woman becoming one of the most realistically optimistic and courageous persons in my experience, and an abnormally introverted man suffering with lifetime low self-esteem issues changing into being a delightfully gregarious person, and a deeply troubled youth apparently destined to become intimately associated with the criminal justice system doing a complete turn-around; I must say, these are truly remarkable attainments. Quite frankly, I find the change that has taken place in each of them phenomenal, especially in such a relatively short period of time. I gave in to my curiosity and so I’m here to see if there is any correlation between these changes and their attendance at this Bible study, teacher!
“Wow!’ interjected the boy. “To think that back in eternity past our all-loving, triune God planned, ordained and then by speaking His world into existence, predestined you to be with us today is truly awesome.” “Allow me to be completely candid with you, young fellow. I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the Christian God as being one of love. In my view he is the exact opposite. That’s the reason I must reject Him.” “I can’t imagine how you came to such a mistaken conclusion,” the boy countered. I’ve just done an extensive word search on God’s love for my apologetics class at seminary. Would it be ok to share some Scripture verses from the inerrant Word of God to make my point, teacher?” “If no one objects, go right ahead, young man.” “Cool! Listen up everyone.”
10 For your steadfast love is great to the heavens, your faithfulness to the clouds. Psalms 57:10 (ESV)
15 But you, O Lord, are a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. Psalms 86:15 (ESV)
6 The Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children’s children, to the third and the fourth generation.” Exodus 34:6-7 (ESV)
Years of experience had taught the teacher how to determine whenever a non-Christian is on a completely different page and which verses he or she has already judged to be absolute foolishness. For instance, judging from his facial expression after hearing the last part of verse seven from Exodus it looked as though an exposed nerve in the man’s mouth had just been hit by a dental drill, and so the teacher gently cut the boy short and threw the ball back to Marvin, who said:
“I’m quite familiar with those verses, young fellow and many others as well. I’m also cognizant of how some people are able to derive enormous therapeutic value from a belief in them; especially when gathered together among friends who share the same view, and they are in such a delightful environment as this back-yard with its beautiful flower gardens and bird baths. Nor am I unfamiliar with or unsympathetic toward the anguish each of you have, or are currently enduring. As I mentioned earlier, human suffering is the reason I’m devoted to my profession. I’ve dedicated my entire life in trying to alleviate the painful distress many people experience and not just those I serve professionally, some of whom incidentally, I often treat without charge. For instance, I volunteer at the Salvation Army soup kitchen on a fairly regular basis and serve on its Advisory Board. Twice a month my wife and I prepare and deliver nutritious meals to elderly shut-ins. I also serve on various committees of the local chapter of the American Cancer Society. Time constraints prohibit me from doing more, but I do donate a fifth of my income to organizations dedicated towards eradicating global poverty, hunger and disease. Mind you, I’m simply stating facts and not looking for accolades.”
“As you can see I take suffering quite seriously especially as it pertains to innocent little children; which is more than I can say for the god of the Christian religion. I’m not an atheist, mind you. Far from it! Forgive me for taking so much of your time, everyone. “There’s nothing to forgive, Doctor Schwartz.” “Please call me Marvin. All my friends do.” It will be our pleasure, Marvin.” Obviously everyone at the study was impressed by this truly good man. Especially the old teacher who had been around long enough to recognize the man’s compassionate nature vastly exceeded that of all too many professing Christians he had been acquainted with throughout many years. Then, looking directly into Marvin’s eyes, the teacher asked: “You’ve aroused our curiosity as to what you find to be so objectionable about the Christian God. Please tell us,” the teacher said, as he silently thanked the Lord and expressed his gratitude that Charlie wasn’t at the Bible study.
“I hope no one thinks I’m being rude, but ‘objectionable’ is an understatement,” answered Marvin. “Quite frankly, I view the god of the Christian religion as being a “loathsome fiend.” I’ll try not to take too much of your time to explain my view in case anyone is interested, teacher.” “I can assure you we’re all very interested. Please continue, Marvin.” “Thank you. Allow me, if you will, to explain by using the words of Dostoevsky from his classic, ‘The Brothers Karamazov.” “Of course you may, Marvin. I’m familiar with his excellent work.”
Marvin began by relating various parts of a lengthy conversation between two brothers named Ivan and Alyosha. Ivan is speaking: “This poor child of five was subjected to every possible torture by those cultivated parents. They beat her, trashed her, kicked her for no reason till her body was one bruise. Then, they went to greater refinements of cruelty-shut her up all night in the cold and frost in a privy, and because she didn’t ask to be taken up at night (as though a child of five sleeping its angelic, sound sleep could be trained to wake and ask), they smeared her face and filled her mouth with excrement, and it was her mother, her mother did this. And that mother could sleep, hearing the poor child’s groans! Can you understand why a little creature, who can’t even understand what’s done to her, should beat her little aching heart with her tiny fist in the dark and cold, and weep her week unresentful tears to dear kind God to protect her? Do you understand that, friend and brother, you pious and humble novice? Do you understand why this infamy must be and is permitted? Without it, I am told man could not have existed on earth, for he could not have known good and evil. Why should he know that diabolical good and evil when it costs so much? Why, the whole world of knowledge is not worth that child’s prayer to ‘dear kind God’! I say nothing of the sufferings of grown-up people, they have eaten the apple, damn them, and the devil take them all! But those little ones! I am making you suffer, Alyosha, you are not yourself. I’ll leave off if you like.” “Never mind. I want to suffer too,” muttered Alyosha. (a)
Ivan continues: “One picture, only one more, because it’s so curious, so characteristic.” “…it was in the darkest days of serfdom at the beginning of the century, and long live the Liberator of the People! There was in those days a general of aristocratic connections, the owner of great estates, one of those men-somewhat exceptional, I believe, even then-who-retiring from the service into a life of leisure, are convinced that they’ve earned absolute power over the lives of their subjects. There were such men then. So our general settled on his property of two thousand souls, lives in pomp, and domineers over his poor neighbours as thought they were dependents and buffoons. He has kennels of hundreds of hounds and nearly a hundred dog-boys-all mounted, and in uniform. One day a serf boy, a little child of eight, threw a stone at play and hurt the paw of the general’s favorite hound, ‘Why is my favorite dog lame? He is told that the boy threw a stone and hurt the dog’s paw. ‘So you did it.’ The general looked the child up and down. ‘Take him.’ He was taken-taken from his mother and kept shut up all night. Early that morning the general comes out on horseback, with the hounds, his dependents, dog-boys and huntsman, all mounted around him in full hunting parade. The servants are summoned for their edification, and in front of them all stands the mother of the child. The child is brought from the lock-up. It’s a gloomy, cold, foggy, autumn day, a capital day for hunting. The general orders the child to be undressed: the child is stripped naked. He shivers, numb with terror, not daring to cry…’make him run,’ commands the general. ‘Run! Run!’ shout the dog-boys. The boy runs. ‘At him!’ yells the general, and he sets the whole pack of hounds on the child. The hounds catch him, and tear him to pieces before his mother’s eyes!…I believe afterwards the general was declared incapable of administering his estates.”
“Please bear with me while I quote a little more,” said Marvin. “Listen to this question Ivan asked his brother:” “Tell me yourself, I challenge you-answer. Imagine that you are creating a fabric of human destiny with the object of making men happy in the end, giving them peace and rest at last, but that it was essential and inevitable to torture to death only one tiny creature –that baby beating its breast with its fist for instance-and to found that edifice on its unavenged tears, would you consent to be the architect on those conditions? Tell me and tell the truth.” “No, I wouldn’t consent,” said Alyosha softly. “And can you admit the idea that men for whom you are building it would agree to accept their happiness on the foundation of the unexpiated blood of a little victim? And accepting it would remain happy forever?” “No, I can’t…” (b)
“Now may I please briefly quote from the pen of another man who is all too familiar with suffering and evil? His name is Elie Wiesel.” “Is it from ‘NIGHT?’ asked the teacher.” I was hoping you would mention him. All too many Christians are unaware of what I believe you are about to quote.” “I can see why you’re the one facilitating this study, teacher. Yes it is, and the following is his recollection of his first night as a terrified young Jewish boy in a Nazi concentration camp during the Second World War.
Never shall I forget that night, the first night in camp, that turned my life into one long night seven times sealed.
Never shall I forget that smoke.
Never shall I forget the small faces of the children whose bodies I saw transformed into smoke under a silent sky.
Never shall I forget those flames that consumed my faith forever.
Never shall I forget the nocturnal silence that deprived me for all eternity of the desire to live.
Never shall I forget those moments that murdered my God and my soul and turned my dreams to ashes.
Never shall I forget those things, even were I condemned to live as long as God Himself.
Never. (c)
“There is so much more I could say concerning man’s inhumanity towards his fellow man but it’s unnecessary. Nor do I see a need to elaborate on all the suffering man didn’t cause, but the Christian god certainly did by allowing such evil to occur. Natural disasters such as earthquakes, blizzards, tornados, giant Tsunami’s, draughts, pestilence, and the resulting disease and often starvation; especially as these horrors effect little children. To believe that back in eternity past, the One who is supposedly infinite in wisdom and perfect in love, the Almighty Creator whose ways are not our ways, whose ways are infinitely higher than ours and are past our ability to find out; to think that He alone planned, ordained and then by speaking His world into existence predestined that one day in the course of human history that little eight year old boy would be torn to pieces by frenzied hounds before his helpless mother’s eyes, and the little five year old girl brutalized by her parents, and young Elie suffering for years in a living nightmare, which included thousands of young Jewish children being thrown kicking and screaming into the flames; I must totally reject such a fiendish god or else I will become insane. Even if the day came when he revealed to me a morally justifiable explanation for allowing such suffering and evil; I would still hate him and want nothing to do with Him or His fiendish love. There is no possible explanation which could convince me to change my mind concerning the Christian god. None whatsoever!”
With the exception of the teacher everyone was speechless. He broke the silence and said:” Marvin, I’m very pleased you have given so much thought to these matters. Unfortunately, unless they are personally affected, most people “bury their head in the sand,” so to speak. They don’t want to think about such disturbing reality. Your assessment of such a god is certainly accurate and inconsistent with the all- loving God depicted in the Bible and the One we Christians worship. As diligently as I try, I haven’t been able to come up with an infallible explanation concerning God and the problem of suffering and evil, and no one else in the history of mankind has either. All I can do is trust Him and prayerfully continue searching the Sacred Scriptures, knowing that if something in them appears to be ludicrous, then my interpretation must be wrong.”
“I sometimes ask myself ‘what if?’ For instance, ‘what if’’ all the deplorable acts of fallen sinful humans in the worlds history together with the resulting pain and suffering, with some exceptions, of course; ‘what if’ they each occurred as a result of the choices we sinful creatures freely make throughout our lifetime, and ‘what if,’ unless the person accepts forgiveness for his or her sinful choices; forgiveness which is freely available only through Christ’s atonement on His cross; then those sinful acts are destined to result in eternal consequences. Consequences such as at the moment we draw our last breath we find ourselves trapped in everlasting darkness where we will suffer self-inflicted eternal torment of utter frustration resulting from never being able to satisfy our insatiable craving to do our own thing.
Or ‘what if’’ at the exact moment of our death we find ourselves living in everlasting light with an unquenchable desire to continue pursuing holiness and loving our Creator with all of our mind and heart and soul and strength, and passionately wanting to emulate Him with each of our thoughts, words and actions through which we will glorify Him and be able to enjoy fellowshipping with Him eternally in unimaginable peace, contentment, joy and its resulting happiness because we are madly in love with our Creator just as He is with us; and ‘what if’ when they enter into eternity He finally reveals to every human being that all the evil and suffering they each endured while they were alive on earth actually took place in ‘a dream’ lovingly produced and directed by HIM. ‘What if’’ this were true, my friend?
Lord willing, soon….
(a) THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV, by Fyodor Dostoevsky, translated by Constance Garnett, Barnes & Noble Classics,122 Fifth Ave. New York, N. Y. 10011, pg. 224.
(b) Ibid. pg, 225.
(c) NIGHT, © 1972, 1985 by Elie Wiesel, Translation copyright © 2006 by Marion Wiesel, Hill and Wang, 19 Union Square West, New York 10003, pg. 34.
Mike,
Now I’m confused. If all the horrible things were just a dream for those who lived lives of heartache and misery, (Like those little kids in your sermon), then those of us who lived at the same time and didn’t have a horrible time would be living in a dream too, right?
One other thing I didn’t get was how in the beginning of your sermon, when Charlie realizes his loved ones are in heaven and they say, “Let’s take Dad and show him around, then in the next paragraph you say, “At the exact same moment and unbeknownst to Charlie there is a different scene on earth involving the same folks. How can those people be in heaven and in an earthly Bible study at the same time? The Bible study wasn’t a horrible thing or causing misery or heartache. It was a good positive moment in their lives. Are you saying that the good stuff, the positive stuff, the mundane stuff and all the stuff of life are just dreams too? Is that the point of this sermon?
If none of this is real, I will be alright. Cause that means that people I love who are ill and suffering and others who are living a sinful life actually aren’t. It was all just a horrible nightmare. There have been many times when I’ve wished I could just wake up and find out none of it was true. What a relief that would be.
But if none of this life is true, and it’s all a dream, then how can heaven be real. If we didn’t live, accept Christ and die, then how can we go to heaven.
Hmmm. Now I am thoroughly confused.
Dorothy
Hi Mike,
Here is an extreme summary of your message and my thoughts related to it:
We start out with Charlie and family (+Marvin) dead and meeting in Heaven. We cut to the Bible study, but without Charlie but, where is he, in the hospital? And, is this a dream then where the psychiatrist tells everyone, he thinks God is a fiend? Is Marvin really an atheist who says “*if* there is a God, then He is bad”? Is the opposite of a “God of love” a “God of hate”? Then he tries to explain why he believes such a thing. Finally, in response, the teacher offers some of his thoughts.
I haven’t read it yet, but I own the book, C.S. Lewis’s “The Problem of Pain”. What does C.S. Lewis say about these things, I wonder? I’ll have to find it and read it, right? Perhaps Marvin would not be satisfied with this thought of mine, but isn’t it arrogant of us humans to expect that we can actually understand and explain the way God’s mind works, the way God makes decisions? Why should He act in a way that makes sense to us? Isn’t He the Potter? Yes, we are made in His image, but so is a baby “made” in the image of a grownup, yet what a difference exists in their brain capacities! The difference must be much, much more between humans and God!
Thank you for making me think about this Mike, for me the message was a blessing!
Take care and may God bless you!
Agnes
Hi Mike,
I will be honest with you about your sermon. I found the details of torture very unsettling. I have great difficulty with things like that, more so when children are affected. If I am in the middle of a movie and that type of thing appears, I either have to close my eyes or walk out.
I found the message left me with more questions than answers. My most important question is what was the main point you were trying to get across? I think I got lost in the details and your point got blurred. I think you were trying to say that no matter what, God is a God of love and He is in control. Is that correct? Are you ok with my candid reply?
Elvia
Mike,
I just finished reading “What If?” I often times hear the argument from atheists and unbelievers that the God of the Bible is a tyrant. I even hear from Christians that they are often confused when it comes to the existence of evil, pain, suffering, and hell. The question that often comes up is this: How can the God of Love, Mercy, and Grace allow or even worse ordain such horrific suffering to take place? Of course there is no answer that is suitable in this life; there is no way for us to truly understand the righteous judgment and decrees of God with our limited knowledge of Him. But I will say this, we can Trust the Promises of God found in His Word. If God says that “All things work together for good, for those who love God, those called according to His plan and purposes,” then we as Christians must believe this. Can we figure this out with our human reason when we hear of a young boy torn to shreds by a pack of angry dogs while his mother witnesses the entire scene? No we cannot, and we should not try to. God is Love, God is absolutely Sovereign, and God’s Providential hand is active in all events that take place. He is the Creator of all things, He is the Potter and we are the clay. In the end we will all one day see Him face to face. At that day we will finally understand the depths of our own sin and the magnificence of God’s Grace.
To God be all Praise, Glory, and Honor, Forever, AMEN!
Guy
Hi Dad,
I just finished the sermon and was both surprised and pleased by the depth that touched this ‘touched family.’ Good history, solid facts, creative storytelling, and enough truths to make people do a lot of thinking.
Very excellent job, Dad.
I love you,
Anne-Marie
PS:Just wondering:If Charlie died and his family died on the way home from the committal service, and if the son is a 16 year old high school kid; he cannot be in seminary while this Bible Study takes place during Charlie’s lifetime.
As you know I ask the same questions all the time but, I’m at a place in my life where I know and trust in the Word of the Lord. Why such things take place I don’t know. However, I do know it’s within our ability to stop them and at times as a people we don’t. As a people we could have stopped the killing of 6 million Jews but we didn’t.
God gave us the wisdom to do what is right at all times, it is us who decide to take the different road at times. If we all would only follow God’s words and be Christ-like there would be no suffering or pain. What if…. we were Christ-like?
Enjoyed the sermon! I so look forward to them because they touch my heart and mind.
I pray that the Lord continues to show you the way to such great sermons.
God bless my friend,
Ed